Episode 290: Marlene Zuk

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Evolution as the Tinkerer Not the Engineer

Here’s the thing about evolution: It’s really complicated. And there’s so much about how humans have evolved and what causes certain behaviors that scientists are still figuring out.

It’s those unknowns that fascinate Marlene Zuk, a professor of Ecology, Evolution and Behavior at the University of Minnesota. She’s written numerous books on animal behavior and evolution, with her most recent publication being Dancing Cockatoos and the Dead Man Test: How Behavior Evolves and Why It Matters.

Marlene and Greg discuss common misconceptions about genes and heredity, how to even define “behavior,” and why humans have not evolved to be perfectly suited for our environment.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Episode Quotes:

On the complexity of science

04:14: Newsflash: Science is complicated. But I feel like if you can internalize that complication, it's really liberating because you realize that you do not have to come up with the sound bite, the click bait, or whatever you want to call it.

Underestimating our capacity as human beings

29:44: Mismatch is real, but what it illustrates is how evolution works, which is full of trade-offs and things that are just okay but functional. And evolution doesn't produce organisms that are perfect for their environment because it can't. Evolution can only produce something based on what's already there.

Evolution shows your connectedness among living things

20:44: One of the things that I think is super cool about evolution is that it shows you the connectedness among living things. How awesome is that? But to go from there to creating this scale of nature, this chain of being, and saying, "Okay, well, this one is next to me because it's better than the one that's behind it, and the ones that are next to me are better than the ones that aren't next to me," That just seems feudal.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• Hamish Spencer

• Watson and Crick 

• She Has Her Mother’s Laugh: The Powers, Perversions, and Potential of Hereditary

• unSILOed episode featuring Daniel Lieberman

Guest Profile:

• Faculty Profile at University of Minnesota 

• Professional Profile on Association for Behavior Analysis International

Her Work:

• Dancing Cockatoos and the Dead Man Test: How Behavior Evolves and Why It Matters

• Paleofantasy: What Evolution Really Tells Us about Sex, Diet, and How We Live

• Sex on Six Legs: Lessons on Life, Love, and Language from the Insect World

• Riddled With Life: Friendly Worms, Ladybug Sex, and the Parasites That Make Us Who We Are

• Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can't Learn About Sex from Animals

• Scholarly Articles